EggXpert

Cross posted to TGB.

I want a 7MC client machine. One that can run Media Browser. One that can handle 1080p mkvs. One that can handle Blu-Ray. I have a popcorn hour, but I don't like the UI, so this machine will replace that device, and hopefully replace the extender as soon as ATi/MS relkease the CableCard firmware update. Audio has to go coaxial or toslink because the receiver isn't HDMI.  I have a HDMI switch to manage multiple HDMI devices. I know this won't be able to see my cablecard recordings (for now), but the mkvs and a good UI are more important. I'm hoping I can do a remote login to handle maintenance, so I won't need a keyboard. I'm hoping 7MC will be stable enough to not need maintenance to begin with.  I have a hard drive, and a copy of Win7 waiting to be installed.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12246872

CPU: AMD Sempron 140
Motherboard: ASRock A780GMH/128M
RAM: A-DATA 2GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Video: MSI N210-MD512H GeForce 210 512MB (low profile and silent)
Blu-Ray: LITE-ON iHOS104-06 4X Blu-ray Reader
Case: hec 7KJ9 Micro ATX
Remote: Adesso ARC-1100

Added in a eSata Bracket and a right angle sata power cable. I have a right angle sata data cable and a spare hard drive. From the reviews of the case, I read I might need right angle sata parts for an optical drive (gets close to stock CPU HSF), so I'm not taking any chances.

So my question(s)...

Can the GT210 really handle Blu-Ray and other 1080p video aplomb, or am I better off using integrated graphics with a dual core CPU (like the AMD Athlon x2 240)? Any other concerns about this build configuration? Needless to say, money is an issue otherwise I'd get more ram and a beefier CPU, but I'd like to think that this can get the job done. I'm a bit partial to nVidia GPUs namely becuase of issues I've had with ATi cards and the HDMI handshaking (I like to leave the HTPC on 24/7 even when the TV is off).

 

I'm not expert enough to give you a definitive answer but wanted to say that the AVSFORUM has a great guide to building one and has both Intel and AMD and low to high end examples. Take a look!

Here is something similar to what you are trying to build, and they list these two sets under low end HTPC. So, yours is perhaps boarderline or below that.

How about spending a lil more on a dual core Athlon II X2 240 and utilizing onboard HD 4200 to start with and then add a 50 dollar graphics later because your reciever is not HDMI yet?  See the first AMD/AMD solution including the remarks. If you took out the HDD and graphics card, that would pay for your Blu-ray player, cables and remote. or add about 40 bucks to the 2nd option minus the HDD if you prefer Nvidia.

AMD/AMD

System

• CPU: Athlon II X2 240 ADX240OCGQBOX 2.8GHz AM3, $60.
• CPU Cooler: Stock cooler, $0.
• Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM2+ AMD 785G chipset microATX, $80.
• Memory: G.SKILL F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK DDR2-1066 2 x 1GB Kit, $37.
• Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4550 DDR3 512MB HDMI, $45.
• HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
• PSU: 80 PLUS 350W ATX PSU (included in the case), $0
• Case: Antec NSK1480 microATX, $95.
• Total Cost: $387

Remarks

• You could use the onboard graphics (HD 4200) but HDMI audio is limted to stereo LPCM. If your receiver is pre-HDMI, this is a good choice.
• If you prefer DDR3 SDRAM (+$10 with little performance increase, but DDR3 memory modules are reusable in future), choose
  • GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM2+ AMD 785G chipset microATX, $82.
  • G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-2GBNQ DDR3-1600 2 x 1GB Kit, $45.

AMD/NVIDIA

System

• CPU: Athlon II X2 240 ADX240OCGQBOX 2.8GHz AM3, $60.
• CPU Cooler: Stock cooler, $0.
• Motherboard: ASUS M3N78-EM AM2+ GeForce 8300 mGPU microATX, $83.
• Memory: G.SKILL F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK DDR2-1066 2 x 1GB Kit, $37.
• Graphics Card: GeForce 8200 (integrated in the chipset), $0.
• HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
• PSU: 80 PLUS 350W ATX PSU (included in the case), $0
• Case: Antec NSK1480 microATX, $95.
• Total Cost: $345

 

It's been said that you need a Dual Core CPU for Blu-ray and 1080p playback. So, the single core CPU can be problematic. My Pentium 4 3.0 single core barely plays 1080i (70% CPU sage) which comes down to 30 % or so with a GeForce 9500GT DDR3 (512MB). I am not sure how well it does with 1080p Bluray.

 

PERSONALLY, ... if you go micro ATX, you PAY for onboard graphics. So, why do you completely kill that and spend extra on a separate graphics when you can be spending the money on a dual core CPU?  Well, just my thought...

The HDMI on the 785G might not be adaquate for the future (when I get a HDMI reciever for multi channel LPCM), but that future isn't hear yet. Everyone else has stated that the 785G is good enough, so I might just go with that.  No dedicated card. By the time I'll need a dedicated card there probably will be a fanless GT220 or a fanless Radeon 5x50 as well...

So now I'm looking at:

CPU: Athlon II X2 240 ADX240OCGQBOX 2.8GHz AM3
Motherbord: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM2+ AMD 785G
RAM: Crucial DDR3-1333 2GB
Video: Onboard 785G
Blu-Ray: LITE-ON iHOS104-06 4X Blu-ray Reader
Case: hec 7KJ9 Micro ATX
Remote: Adesso ARC-1100

I hope the 2GB is enough. Just in cast it is not, I figure I'd go with a single stick, and I can just in a second one if needed. Thanks for the heads up.

Dalhectar:

The HDMI on the 785G might not be adaquate for the future (when I get a HDMI reciever for multi channel LPCM), but that future isn't hear yet. Everyone else has stated that the 785G is good enough, so I might just go with that.  No dedicated card. By the time I'll need a dedicated card there probably will be a fanless GT220 or a fanless Radeon 5x50 as well...

So now I'm looking at:

CPU: Athlon II X2 240 ADX240OCGQBOX 2.8GHz AM3
Motherbord: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM2+ AMD 785G
RAM: Crucial DDR3-1333 2GB
Video: Onboard 785G
Blu-Ray: LITE-ON iHOS104-06 4X Blu-ray Reader
Case: hec 7KJ9 Micro ATX
Remote: Adesso ARC-1100

I hope the 2GB is enough. Just in cast it is not, I figure I'd go with a single stick, and I can just in a second one if needed. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Looks good to me. BTW, I'm not sure if the stock PSU that comes with the card is good enough though... 270W? You will find out I guess..

But PSU that comes with this one would probably have a better chance covering the potential upgrade with a low profile video card, additional HDD etc.  I have been told here many times here how important it is to get a quality PSU from a reputable brand and how that saves money down the line. So, just throwing this out here. 

The micro ATX case is for space, size, and cost considerations. The computer is going on an AV rack, and even the full size ATX HT cases won't fit. One Issue I feel I might have with the case is Blu-Ray clearance, thus the right angle SATA power cable which was recommended from the newegg comments. Also with the Blu-Ray drive being relatively difficult to insert in that specific case, I want to put it in right away, vs say a second 2GB stick ora low profile PCIe card, which would be easy to add later.  The PCIe card is low power, my storage needs on the machines are minimal (all I need is 40GB for the OS and apps and I have a 500GB Samsung drive, I keep terabytes of TV recordigs and mkvs on the LAN), even the CPU is low power at 65W... but you are right about not skimping out on a quality PSU. I can't afford to have the machine melt itself in 6 months.

Hunting for a good case though is hard. I want a relatively slim desktop style case. I like the style of some the smaller Antec HTPC cases but they have that ugly grey facade instead of a flat black that would be unobtrusive in an AV rack of black components.  I might want to get something like the Lian Li PC-C37B MUSE but the case and a power supply are simply out of budget.

I might just need to hunt around more for an ideal case/power supply.

Dalhectar:

One Issue I feel I might have with the case is Blu-Ray clearance, thus the right angle SATA power cable which was recommended from the newegg comments. Also with the Blu-Ray drive being relatively difficult to insert in that specific case, I want to put it in right away, vs say a second 2GB stick ora low profile PCIe card, which would be easy to add later.

my HTPC build uses this case.  Although it isn't the exact same as yours, i think the dimensions are the same in relation to the BD-Drive.  Perhaps these photos will help in your purchase decision:

I built it a little over a year ago.  Here are the parts I used:
1 x WINTEC AMPX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 3AXT6400SE5-2048K - Retail
1 x LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray DVD-ROM SATA Model DH-4O1S-11 - OEM
1 x GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
1 x hec Black 0.7mm Thickness SECC 7K09 Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case - Retail
1 x AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Brisbane 2.5GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO4800DOBOX - Retail

The hard drives I already had from an older build.  I'm running Vista 32-bit with the Media Browser plugin.  I can play 1080p movies just fine due to enabling hardware acceleration in Media Center with the proper codecs.

I don't have any experience with tuners since they won't be making anything worth getting until 2010 (CableCard).  When that happens, I'll be making a new low-wattage triple or quad core HTPC for the recording and use my old one as an extender.

Dalhectar:

The micro ATX case is for space, size, and cost considerations. The computer is going on an AV rack, and even the full size ATX HT cases won't fit. One Issue I feel I might have with the case is Blu-Ray clearance, thus the right angle SATA power cable which was recommended from the newegg comments. Also with the Blu-Ray drive being relatively difficult to insert in that specific case, I want to put it in right away, vs say a second 2GB stick ora low profile PCIe card, which would be easy to add later.  The PCIe card is low power, my storage needs on the machines are minimal (all I need is 40GB for the OS and apps and I have a 500GB Samsung drive, I keep terabytes of TV recordigs and mkvs on the LAN), even the CPU is low power at 65W... but you are right about not skimping out on a quality PSU. I can't afford to have the machine melt itself in 6 months.

Hunting for a good case though is hard. I want a relatively slim desktop style case. I like the style of some the smaller Antec HTPC cases but they have that ugly grey facade instead of a flat black that would be unobtrusive in an AV rack of black components.  I might want to get something like the Lian Li PC-C37B MUSE but the case and a power supply are simply out of budget.

I might just need to hunt around more for an ideal case/power supply.

 Exactly my dilema as well. There's no small and attractive looking case with a reputable power supply for micro ATX boards though there are some nice ones for miniITX. I guess your decision to go with a 270W PSU is the best available option...

mrjspeed:

Dalhectar:

One Issue I feel I might have with the case is Blu-Ray clearance, thus the right angle SATA power cable which was recommended from the newegg comments. Also with the Blu-Ray drive being relatively difficult to insert in that specific case, I want to put it in right away, vs say a second 2GB stick ora low profile PCIe card, which would be easy to add later.

my HTPC build uses this case.  Although it isn't the exact same as yours, i think the dimensions are the same in relation to the BD-Drive.  Perhaps these photos will help in your purchase decision:

I built it a little over a year ago.  Here are the parts I used:
1 x WINTEC AMPX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 3AXT6400SE5-2048K - Retail
1 x LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray DVD-ROM SATA Model DH-4O1S-11 - OEM
1 x GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
1 x hec Black 0.7mm Thickness SECC 7K09 Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case - Retail
1 x AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Brisbane 2.5GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO4800DOBOX - Retail

The hard drives I already had from an older build.  I'm running Vista 32-bit with the Media Browser plugin.  I can play 1080p movies just fine due to enabling hardware acceleration in Media Center with the proper codecs.

I don't have any experience with tuners since they won't be making anything worth getting until 2010 (CableCard).  When that happens, I'll be making a new low-wattage triple or quad core HTPC for the recording and use my old one as an extender.

 

Makes me want to build one too. How do you enable hardware acceleration in Media Center? Is there any setting? My HTPC-ish is fitted with TV tuners but no blu-ray drives.

Looks like it will make a nice HTPC.

products:

Makes me want to build one too. How do you enable hardware acceleration in Media Center? Is there any setting? My HTPC-ish is fitted with TV tuners but no blu-ray drives.

It has been about a year since I've done it, but if I remember correctly, the procedure I did was basically this:

- On a fresh install of Windows (i.e. no third party codecs installed), I installed CCCP.  On CCCP's settings, I unchecked matroska (.mkv).
- I then downloaded the standalone filters for MPC-Home Cinema.  My system is x86.  I placed the x86 version of "MPCVideoDec.ax" into a folder that wouldn't be bothered, like system32.  To register the codec, I ran cmd as administrator, navigated to the folder and ran regsvr32 MPCVideoDec.ax I believe.
- Lastly, you need to change the settings of this codec based off of what MPC-HC's website says for DxVA and what OS you have.  I use a nifty too called "GraphStudio".  You can view all of the codecs installed on your system, and modify their settings if they have any.  Be sure to enable .MKV for this codec.  The other nice thing about this program is that you can open a movie file, and it will draw out what your system is choosing for the codecs.  If it is not using MPCVideoDec, then you know either you need to change some settings or uninstall another codec. 

I think that was about it.  Basically that leaves you with CCCP doing all of the decoding of everything except for the video streams in .MKV's. Now when you open VMC or WMP, it should have very low CPU usage.

YMMV, I installed this about a year ago on a Vista x86 system.  Some of the specifics will change on x64 or Windows 7 I'm sure.  Also, not all MKV's are DxVA compatible, they have to be encoded to a certain standard.  Right now, if you use DxVA (hardware accel) on MKV's, it doesn't allow the post processing of subtitles.  This means no subtitles if you want low CPU usage.

mrjspeed:

products:

Makes me want to build one too. How do you enable hardware acceleration in Media Center? Is there any setting? My HTPC-ish is fitted with TV tuners but no blu-ray drives.

It has been about a year since I've done it, but if I remember correctly, the procedure I did was basically this:

- On a fresh install of Windows (i.e. no third party codecs installed), I installed CCCP.  On CCCP's settings, I unchecked matroska (.mkv).
- I then downloaded the standalone filters for MPC-Home Cinema.  My system is x86.  I placed the x86 version of "MPCVideoDec.ax" into a folder that wouldn't be bothered, like system32.  To register the codec, I ran cmd as administrator, navigated to the folder and ran regsvr32 MPCVideoDec.ax I believe.
- Lastly, you need to change the settings of this codec based off of what MPC-HC's website says for DxVA and what OS you have.  I use a nifty too called "GraphStudio".  You can view all of the codecs installed on your system, and modify their settings if they have any.  Be sure to enable .MKV for this codec.  The other nice thing about this program is that you can open a movie file, and it will draw out what your system is choosing for the codecs.  If it is not using MPCVideoDec, then you know either you need to change some settings or uninstall another codec. 

I think that was about it.  Basically that leaves you with CCCP doing all of the deco ding of everything except for the video streams in .MKV's. Now when you open VMC or WMP, it should have very low CPU usage.

YMMV, I installed this about a year ago on a Vista x86 system.  Some of the specifics will change on x64 or Windows 7 I'm sure.  Also, not all MKV's are DxVA compatible, they have to be encoded to a certain standard.  Right now, if you use DxVA (hardware accel) on MKV's, it doesn't allow the post processing of subtitles.  This means no subtitles if you want low CPU usage.

 

Wow that's a loong journey but impressive! Who the hell came up with this? LOL!!! *me bookmarks this thread*  So I guess I gotta reinstall 7 to do this.. I now have about 8-10% CPU usage on WMP (I have Quad 2.4GHz and Radeon 4850), but how much can I expect it to go down?

products:

Wow that's a loong journey but impressive! Who the hell came up with this? LOL!!! *me bookmarks this thread*  So I guess I gotta reinstall 7 to do this.. I now have about 8-10% CPU usage on WMP (I have Quad 2.4GHz and Radeon 4850), but how much can I expect it to go down?

Honestly, if you have a quad-core it might not be worth the trouble to doing it.  If you are having a pleasant experience now, I wouldn't change it.  Enabling H.A. on a quad-core system would drop the CPU usage to 1% - 2% from what I've seen from people posting their results.  The reason I did this, is because my 2.5ghz dual core was doing ~60% on 1080p movies.  On rich non-letterboxed 1920x1080 movies (like The Dark Knight), my CPU would stutter.  I would max out my CPU at 100% and thus the movie was unwatchable for me.  This is why I was forced to figure out hardware accel for WMP/VMC.  So, H.A. gave me 3 benefits: Lower power usage/temps, the ability to play any movie, and smoother navigation when FFing and RWing.  One of the sad things I was experiencing before I enabled H.A. was that when I skipped forward in a movie, it would be anywhere from 5 to 15 seconds for the video to catch up and get in sync with the audio.  After H.A., it takes 1 second :)

You don't HAVE to re-install Windows 7.  It just makes it easier because you know there aren't any extra codecs lurking on the system.  Since built the box and set it up, you probably have an idea what codecs are already on there.  You can just as easily un-install them to achieve the same results.

mrjspeed:

products:

Wow that's a loong journey but impressive! Who the hell came up with this? LOL!!! *me bookmarks this thread*  So I guess I gotta reinstall 7 to do this.. I now have about 8-10% CPU usage on WMP (I have Quad 2.4GHz and Radeon 4850), but how much can I expect it to go down?

Honestly, if you have a quad-core it might not be worth the trouble to doing it.  If you are having a pleasant experience now, I wouldn't change it.  Enabling H.A. on a quad-core system would drop the CPU usage to 1% - 2% from what I've seen from people posting their results.  The reason I did this, is because my 2.5ghz dual core was doing ~60% on 1080p movies.  On rich non-letterboxed 1920x1080 movies (like The Dark Knight), my CPU would stutter.  I would max out my CPU at 100% and thus the movie was unwatchable for me.  This is why I was forced to figure out hardware accel for WMP/VMC.  So, H.A. gave me 3 benefits: Lower power usage/temps, the ability to play any movie, and smoother navigation when FFing and RWing.  One of the sad things I was experiencing before I enabled H.A. was that when I skipped forward in a movie, it would be anywhere from 5 to 15 seconds for the video to catch up and get in sync with the audio.  After H.A., it takes 1 second :)

You don't HAVE to re-install Windows 7.  It just makes it easier because you know there aren't any extra codecs lurking on the system.  Since built the box and set it up, you probably have an idea what codecs are already on there.  You can just as easily un-install them to achieve the same results.

 

I see! Thanks!! Right now, I don't play Blu-ray movies so I guess that's one big less reason to reinstall, but I didnt know a 2.5GHz dual core had difficult playing 1080p smoothly (like taking time to catch up when you skip to a time code). I have noticed that compared to XP with a codec pack, Win 7 sometimes staggers to initiate a playback of certain video files.  Good to know what can be done as I may well build a budget HTPC with a dual core at some point in the future. I use GraphEdit, a similar soft to see what my system is using to open  files. Occasionally, after editing and encoding a video, I see that a regular mpg file that should be using a standard demuxer is using Sonic HD demuxer (I have Roxio / Sonic Blu-ray burning plug in) which normally is used by H246 TS files. Weird.